Blu-Ray framflyttat igen

Då finns det hopp om bolagen som Paramount släpper sina filmer på båda formaten och i så fall blir det inga problem att skaffa en Blu-ray eller HD DVD nästa år. Frågan är om Sony lyckas matcha priset som Toshiba kommer att ha, med de ekonomiska problemen som Sony redan har måste detta vara enormt påfrestande som slår hårt i grundvalarna. Detta är ingen lek och det vet alla inblandade, bara konsumenterena kommer att avgöra vilket fomat blir den mest populära i slutändan och inte tillverkarna, jag tror att bakåt kompatibiliteten är den som avgör för ingen vill ha en spelare som inte klarar av ädre dvd skivor.

Om jag har fattat det hela rätt så är blurayspelarna bakåtkompatibla med DVD då båda bygger på röd laser. Då det är sagt att PS3an skall klara av ps1 & 2 spel(CD + DVD)

Men, är bluray röd laser? då borde det väl heta redray? HD-DVD spelarna måste dock utrustas med en extra laser för att vara kompatibla med DVD.

Rätta mig om jag har fel.

Är ganska säker på att det är tvärtom, dvs bluray kör med blå laser och HD-DVD med röd laser.

...Båda har blå laser och måste kompletteras med röd laser för DVD och CD.

HD-DVD är mer kompatibel i tillverkningsprocessen än Bluray, alltså kostar det mindre att uppgradera sin fabrik till HD-DVD, med Blyray måste man köpa allt nytt och måste ha separata tillverkningsprocesser för vanliga DVD och Bluray...

Blu-ray avancerar igen....



October 20, 2005 08:03 PM US Eastern Timezone

Warner Bros. Joins Blu-ray Disc Association and Will Release Its Films on Next Generation Blu-ray High Definition Optical Media Disc

BURBANK, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Oct. 20, 2005--Warner Bros. Entertainment and its home entertainment division Warner Home Video, which distributes the largest film library of any studio, today announced it has joined the board of directors of the Blu-ray Disc Association and will release its films on the Blu-ray format.



Warner Home Video will release titles on the Blu-ray format to support the launch of Blu-ray players in North America, Japan and Europe, giving consumers the ability to enjoy a wide range of new releases and selections from Warner Bros.' vast library and that of New Line and HBO on the Blu-ray format.

Blu-ray Disc is a next generation optical disc format developed for high-definition video and high capacity software applications. A single layer Blu-ray Disc will hold up to 25 gigabytes of data and a dual layer Blu-ray Disc will hold up to 50 gigabytes of data. This greater storage capacity enables the Blu-ray Disc to store up to five times the amount of content than is possible with current DVDs.

"Consumers will soon be able to enjoy a large selection of catalogue favorites and contemporary hits from Warner's vast library on the Blu-ray format," said Jim Cardwell, President, Warner Home Video.

With operations in 90 international territories, Warner Home Video commands the largest distribution infrastructure in the global video marketplace. Warner Home Video's film library is the largest of any studio, offering top quality new and vintage titles from the repertoires of Warner Bros. Pictures Inc., Turner Entertainment Company, Castle Rock Entertainment, HBO Home Video and New Line Home Entertainment.

About the Blu-ray Disc Association

The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) is responsible for establishing format standards and promoting and further developing business opportunities for Blu-ray Disc -- the next-generation optical disc for storing high-definition movies, games, photos and other digital content. The BDA has over 150 members. Its Board of Directors consists of Dell Inc.; Hewlett Packard Company; Hitachi, Ltd.; LG Electronics Inc.; Mitsubishi Electric Corporation; Panasonic (Matsushita Electric); Pioneer Corporation; Royal Philips Electronics; Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd.; Sharp Corporation; Sony Corporation; TDK Corporation; Thomson; Twentieth Century Fox; Walt Disney Pictures and Television and Warner Bros. Entertainment.

AVR4000!

När du skriver BD, är det Blue-ray du menar då? och har Sony fortfarande ett skyddshölje likt Minidisk på Blue-ray skivorna?

Jag är inte så uppdaterad i ämnet!

PS: hoppas på Blue-ray med skyddshölje!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ja, BD är Blue-ray, varför har jag dock aldrig förstått.

Nej jag tror inte att blue-ray skivorna kommer att ha något skyddshölje alla minidisc. De har (som cd och dvd) ett tunt skyddande lager, 1/6 av tjockleken på cd & dvd skivorna men mycket hårdare en dessas. Detta är vad jag hört i alla fall.

Nej det blir inget skyddande kassetthölje. Personligen skulle jag gärna ha detta men majoriteten verkar se det som en nackdel att skivorna inte kan skadas. Om inte HD-DVD har det så kan inte gärna Blue-ray ha det heller. Och rimligtvis påverkar det tillverkningskostnaden märkbart om man vill ha detta skydd. Annars borde man använda det konceptet och marknadsföra det som en fördel.

Ja båda system kommer att vara bakåtkompatibla med DVD och CD. Allt annat skulle ju vara vansinne speciellt nu då det blir formatkrig. Jag hoppas dock att Blu-ray lyckas erövra marknaden snabbt och att HD-DVD får lägga ner. Det hänger förstås på marknadsföringen och hur tillförlitliga produkterna blir. Får någon produkt dåligt rykte i inledningsskedet kan det bli ödesdigert. Vilket system som är tekniskt bäst spelar ju som bekant ingen roll.

AVR4000!

När du skriver BD, är det Blue-ray du menar då? och har Sony fortfarande ett skyddshölje likt Minidisk på Blue-ray skivorna?

Jag är inte så uppdaterad i ämnet!

PS: hoppas på Blue-ray med skyddshölje!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ja, BD är Blue-ray, varför har jag dock aldrig förstått.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Blu-ray Disc.

Ja, BD är Blue-ray, varför har jag dock aldrig förstått.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

BD = Bluray Disc, enkelt va?

edit: ouch! wmadossen hann före...

Märks tydligt att Sony & Co inte valt ett bra namn. Det heter Bluray, inte Blueray. HDDVD är ett bättre namn (vilket snart verkar vara det enda plusspoäng HDDVD har kvar...)

Redigerat av pacman, 24 oktober 2005 - 10:01.

Och redan pratas det om ett nytt överlägset format (har iofs pratats om det för länge sen) ..som ska finnas redan till sommaren..hmm det återstår dock att se..


http://www.idg.se/Ar...3942_MD.dbp.asp

Och namnet HD-DVD kan nog få större betydelse än man tror (som pacman antyder)när detta når konsumenterna i butik...

Redigerat av Unregisteredf2a7f9fd, 24 oktober 2005 - 10:10.

Och redan pratas det om ett nytt överlägset format (har iofs pratats om det för länge sen) ..som ska finnas redan till sommaren..hmm det återstår dock att se..

Personligen ser jag ingen poäng med mer lagringsutrymme när det gäller skivor för film. Både BD och HDDVD kan kirra 1080p@24 + DD TrueHD och det är det som är viktigt. I vilket fall som helst är det tillräckligt med kaos som det är, filmindustrin lär inte blanda in ytterliggare ett format. Helst inte när det extra utrymmet faktiskt inte behövs.

Då säger nån: Man kan ju få in 1080p på vanlig DVD oxå (med VC1-kodning, WM9). Sant, men förutom filmen så blir det inte så mycket mer dessutom är jag rätt säker på att filmindustrin inte är direkt helnöjda med det numera icke-existerande kopieringsskydd DVD har, det är här BD och HDDVD kommer in i bilden.

Inom datalagring är det förstås helt annorlunda, desto mer desto bättre. Kanske även inom recording sektorn, vore fint om man slapp byta skiva titt som tätt när man spelar in från C More HD osv. Men med det sagt, för köpfilm tror jag inte på nått annat än BD och HDDVD.

Börjar det bli dags att utse Blu-ray till vinnare redan nu? Nu väntar vi bara på att spelare och filmer släpps. Jag gissar att det kan bli så som vi hade det med LD så att det blir amerikanska spelare och filmer som snabbast tas emot av oss entusiaster. Eller kommer spelarna till datorerna att vara det som gäller tills fristående spelare släpps här? Nu börjar det bli spännande...


Nov 9, 2005 - MGM to Support Blu-ray Disc Format

Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Inc. (MGM), which owns the world's largest library of modern films, today announced its support of the Blu-ray Disc format. In cooperation with the Blu-ray Disc Association, MGM plans to begin releasing film and television titles from its world-renowned library when Blu-ray hardware launches in North America, Japan and Europe. "MGM's focus has always been to provide movie lovers complete access to the world's largest modern film library in the most technologically advanced formats," said Harry Sloan, Chairman and CEO of MGM Studios. "Adopting this new Blu-ray technology, with its expanded storage capacity and increased interactive capabilities, allows us to continue to provide our customers with the best movie viewing experience available." Consumers can now look forward to enjoying titles from franchises such as James Bond and The Pink Panther in the Blu-ray Disc format.
Read more: MGM

Soppan bara fortsätter, ingen vill ge vika.


Content is king. This long-held observation has often been cited by those who believe content availability could tip the scales in a format war. The most recent spate of content-related announcements from backers of Blu-ray Disc and HD-DVD--the formats competing for the throne currently occupied by DVD--appear to shift the balance between the two camps--at least, for the moment.

This time out, the newsmakers are Warner Bros. Entertainment and Hewlett-Packard. And, as with the developments I reported on last month (from Intel and Microsoft, and from Paramount), there's more to these announcements than initially meets the eye.

Warner Joins Team Blu-ray

The availability of content is a critical factor in determining which of the formats in this protracted war has the best chance of survival. Assuming equal pricing and availability of hardware, if more content is available for one format over the other, the format with the larger selection of content will have the edge. Likewise, the format most likely to prevail is the one that requires us as consumers to sacrifice as little as possible; for example, the format that lets us have all of our favorite films, regardless of which studio distributes them.


With Warner's mid-October proclamation that it would join the Blu-ray Disc Association, Blu-ray gained an edge over HD-DVD. Warner says it will release both current and catalog content in the Blu-ray format as well as the HD-DVD format, if both go to market.


Warner's announcement means that five out of the six major studios are supporting Blu-ray--Paramount, Sony Pictures, Twentieth Century Fox, Walt Disney Company, and Warner--or 80 percent of the market. That's in addition to ESPN, Miramax, MGM (which announced its support earlier this month), Lions Gate Entertainment, and Touchstone; gaming giant Electronic Arts; and music powerhouses Sony BMG and Universal Music Group. In short, quite a spate of content providers have lined up now behind Blu-ray Disc--far more than HD-DVD has gathered at this juncture.


Like Paramount before it, Warner is covering its bases by making sure the company is positioned well, regardless of which format wins out. The harsh realities of a dual-format marketplace prompted Warner's switch from being a staunch supporter of HD-DVD to straddling the line between formats.

Hedging Bets

Warner's motive was simple. Says Jim Cardwell, president of Warner's home video arm, "We realized recently that it was likely that both formats would go to market--and we didn't want consumers not to have access to our movies. We wanted to make sure all consumers with high-definition players could watch [our] high-definition movies."


However, Warner still had concerns about Blu-ray--namely, the cost of replicating discs. So the company tabled a proposition to the Blu-ray Disc Association.


"We knew Blu-ray was close to finalizing its specification," explains Cardwell, "and we wanted certain things in the specification. It reached a point in time where we didn't want the ship to sail and miss the opportunity. We felt we could more effectively lobby for those functionalities if we were members of the Blu-ray Disc Association."


Given some of Warner's previous concerns about Blu-ray (which I wrote about in my August interview with Steve Nickerson, senior vice president of market management for Warner Home Video), the additions to the Blu-ray spec that Warner sought were not surprising.


"We wanted the player to be capable of playing back a [9GB] high-definition red-laser disc, which we call BD-9," says Cardwell. "[The disc] would have a high enough capacity for our movies, and it would have a lower cost than the [25GB] BD-25. The advantage would be lower costs to manufacture the disc, because it could be manufactured on existing [DVD production] lines. Certainly, most of our movies will fit on a BD-9. The issue will be how much enhanced content will we put on there. For basic movies, most will fit on BD-9."


Although the Blu-ray Disc Association has not formally announced the format, Cardwell reports that it has "been proposed and accepted by the BDA."

A Red-Laser Blu-ray Disc

The resulting disc will be encoded with a high-definition video codec, and though it will be a red-laser disc (not a blue-laser disc as used by the other formats within the Blu-ray Disc specifications), it will only play back in Blu-ray Disc players and recorders. Even though vendors will be able to manufacture the disc on existing DVD production lines, it is clearly not the same as an HD-DVD. (One of HD-DVD's strengths is its purported ability to be produced at a low cost on existing, albeit modified, DVD production lines).


Wolfgang Schlichting, research director for removable storage at IDC, agrees that using a red-laser disc could save vendors money--at least in the short term, until Blu-ray ramps up its manufacturing, which will in turn drive down costs.


"You could have cost savings if you go with red laser, because you're working with larger [data] pits on the disc," explains Schlichting. "The density is not as high as with blue laser. That could make it easier for [disc] mastering, which is still a challenge for Blu-ray because of its very fine structure."


In spite of Warner's decision to support Blu-ray, if both formats proceed to market, Cardwell stresses that Warner content will come out on both. "We're going to target getting the software out at exactly the same time as the hardware," he says. "We plan to put out major catalog titles and major new releases in both formats; we have not decided exactly how many titles to put out at launch."

HP Pushes for Unity?

A format war is the one type of competition that hurts consumers. No one stands to benefit, neither the customer nor the manufacturer. That's apparently one of many reasons that Hewlett-Packard decided to take a position that's a bit contrary to the party line of the Blu-ray Disc Association, of which the company is a founding member.


In October HP issued a statement requesting that the Blu-ray Disc Association make two changes in its draft spec. First, that Blu-ray back what's referred to as "mandatory managed copy": the guaranteed ability that people who buy Blu-ray Discs be able to make legal copies of content to other devices and media. (Competitor HD-DVD has already touted this consumer-friendly capability as one of its strengths.) The second change that HP asked for was that Blu-ray Disc adopt Microsoft's Interactive HD, or iHD, as the programming language that will govern the disc's menu creation and other interactive capabilities.

Josh Peterson, HP's director of strategic alliances, optical storage solutions business, noted that with this announcement the company hopes to give new life to discussions about uniting the two next-generation optical formats.

The announcement came barely weeks after the company stood alongside Dell and staunchly supported Blu-ray in the face of the above-mentioned Microsoft and Intel announcements supporting HD-DVD. The genesis of this reversal, says Peterson, was a meeting with Microsoft after the Redmond and Seattle behemoths threw their collective weight behind HD-DVD.

"We sat down with Microsoft to compare notes on the PC implementation of the various application layers," says Peterson. "Based on that discussion and technical reviews, we decided iHD is a must, if you will, for the PC implementation of next-generation optical discs."

The iHD Advantage
The advantages to iHD, an XML-based format developed by Microsoft, Disney, and the DVD Forum, will more clearly benefit content producers more than consumers. For content producers, iHD will be easier to use for authoring and testing discs. For consumers, iHD will be integrated into Microsoft's Windows Vista OS, which will make playing an iHD-based disc easier than playing a disc using a different platform that would require installing third-party software.

The second key element of HP's request was for mandatory managed copy. "We envision having high-definition content being streamed from room to room, and iHD is part of the equation that will allow that to happen. These two features together really enable the digital connected home, and we feel the value here especially from a PC perspective is unquestionable. We'd like to make the digital home centered around the PC and PC technology," Peterson says.

"At the end of the day," he adds, "we're doing this for consumers. We want to allow consumers to move their HD content--including the interactive features--throughout the house, and iHD together with managed copy really enables that vision."

Both the HD-DVD and Blu-ray Disc groups have stated that their respective formats will use AACS (Advanced Access Content System) to protect the discs; and AACS, in its current preliminary spec, has provisions for managed copy. However, this summer Blu-ray added BD Plus and ROM Mark security features. Blu-ray reps say these features won't hinder managed copy. However, Peterson notes, "The additional features add a level of complexity. What we're proposing is that we make sure that those features don't inhibit mandatory managed copy."

The HD-DVD camp has been vociferous in its support of mandatory managed copy. Blu-ray Disc Association representative Andy Parsons did note that "BD Plus is a different layer of content protection that should not have any direct impact on that. All of the members of BDA are fully committed to the idea of managed copying. It's just a case of getting a final copy of AACS in our hands to announce anything. It's just a question about implementation."

Peterson admits the method of HP's request to Blu-ray Disc was dramatic, and the timing late--but not impossibly so. "Given the timing, we felt we had to make a bold request, so there was no question about how serious we were about these features," says Peterson. "We won't switch camps--that would be a pretty dramatic move--but we would support both."

The Blu-ray Disc Association had no comment in response to HP's very public request.

The Analysts Weigh In
Some analysts who have been following the saga have already predicted a winner. Ted Schadler, vice president at Forrester Research, released a report that proclaimed, "Blu-ray Will Win a Pyrrhic Victory Over HD-DVD."

Schadler says he's long believed that Blu-ray held the edge due to its superior capacity and the fact that Sony's PlayStation 3 will play Blu-ray movie discs. "The longer the format war continues, the worse off the industry is going to be. As long as they're battling each other, they're not focusing on selling the benefits of the next-gen formats, and that will leave consumers even colder," observes Schadler.

IDC's Schlichting thinks it's too early to declare a clear victor. "From a perception point-of-view, I think Blu-ray has made more progress, especially in Europe and the United States," says Schlichting. "But I don't think we've seen the knockout blow for HD-DVD, even though the Paramount and Warner announcements have taken quite a bit of wind out of the sails of HD-DVD."

Schlichting believes HD-DVD will still have an edge, given that products using this format are currently slated to make it to store shelves before Blu-ray-based hardware. "I think if they are able to show a 30 percent price advantage over Blu-ray products, [HD-DVD], in my view, still has a good chance to keep their format viable," Schlichting says.

And, as Schlichting rightly points out, none of these content deals are exclusive arrangements. "If HD-DVD could generate momentum, that would prompt other studios to consider publishing content, so I don't think it's a total commitment [to Blu-ray] yet," he notes. "Ultimately, the studios will build what consumers demand. The studios are more and more just following where the market is going, and are not interested in leading the market and being kingmaker in this format war."

And so the Blue Laser World turns. What's next in this format soap opera? With the holiday season upon us, I suspect the next big round of announcements won't be until the start of next year, when the annual Consumer Electronics Show descends upon Las Vegas. Stay tuned.



Microsoft has reiterated its preference for the HD-DVD version of next-generation high definition optical storage, despite recent announcements of support for the rival Blu-ray format from several Hollywood studios.
CEO Steve Ballmer said that Vista, the next version of Microsoft Windows, will eventually support HD-DVD, although possibly not when it is first released sometime in the next 18 months. HD-DVD is expected to make its debut early next year.

Ballmer said that the company's support for HD-DVD was based on several reasons, including the way in which it can be integrated with the PC.

'We think it has some real advantages and that's why we have been working very actively with Toshiba and other members of the DVD forum in order to promote this concept,' he said.

He added that although MGM and Warner have recently backed Blu-ray, there is support for both formats among the major studios.

Microsoft has previously given six reasons for preferring HD-DVD - arguments that Blu-ray backers (and the world's two biggest PC makers) rejected.

Current consensus appears to be that Blu-ray holds the advantage, not least because it will be in millions of homes just as soon as Sony releases the PlayStation 3 in the spring of 2006.

Ted Schadler of Forrester Research wrote a report entitled Blu-ray Will Win A Pyrrhic Victory Over HD-DVD.

'After a long and tedious run up to the launch, it is now clear to Forrester that the Sony-led Blu-ray format will win,' he concluded.

However he warned that unless the HD-DVD group 'abandons the field', consumers will be slow to adopt either technology and will instead look elsewhere for video content.

'The longer the format war continues, the worse off the industry is going to be,' he wrote. 'As long as they're battling each other, they're not focusing on selling the benefits of the next-gen formats, and that will leave consumers even colder.'


http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/123491

http://www.pcpro.co....-for-hddvd.html

Kan dom få tummen ur... nån gång eller? Jag behöver ju ny dvd spelare.

Redigerat av Warlokk, 19 november 2005 - 00:26.

Första Blu-ray filmen...


CULVER CITY, Calif., Nov. 18 /PRNewswire/ -- Sony Pictures Home
Entertainment (SPHE) president Benjamin S. Feingold today announced that
authoring has been completed on the first Blu-ray Disc (BD) to contain a
full-length, high-definition feature film. Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle
was compressed and authored in MPEG 2 full high-definition (1920 x 1080) by
Sony Pictures' Digital Authoring Center (DAC) and is now being shipped to BD
hardware companies for player testing.
Utilizing Blu-ray's unprecedented storage capacity, the Charlie's Angels:
Full Throttle disc features dynamic menus with full resolution graphics and
animation, superior audio and unparalleled picture quality. "We are confident
this achievement will help everyone understand that Blu-ray is real and poised
to enter the marketplace," said Mr. Feingold. "Blu-ray will bring the highest
quality HD experience possible to the home."
"We are extremely proud to deliver on the promise of Blu-ray. This is an
important step for our industry in order to begin mass production of
high-definition movies in the Blu-ray format in the near future," said Don
Eklund, Senior Vice President, Advanced Technologies, Sony Pictures Home
Entertainment.
"Sony Pictures authoring tools, together with our unmatched expertise,
have made the first Blu-ray Disc a reality and we are thrilled to ship this
prototype disc to BD hardware manufacturers for testing," said James Mercs
Senior Vice President and General Manager, Digital Authoring Center, Sony
Pictures Home Entertainment.

1080p! Precis som man hade hoppats! Får hoppas att det kommer bra skärmar o projar som klarar visa 1080p "native" till priser som är överkomliga för oss konsumenter. Tyvärr kan man ana att när de väl kommer på bred front så lär priserna hållas höga eftersom efterfrågan kommer vara stor...

Redigerat av thetias, 21 november 2005 - 14:52.

Hmmm... Det står väl inte 1080p ngn stans i utdraget?

"MPEG 2 full high-definition (1920 x 1080)" kan ju lika gärna betyda 1080i då det står i en press-release.
Vad menar de t.ex. med "full resolution graphics"?

Nä, än kan man nog inte ropa hej.

Nej du har rätt i att det står ganska luddigt, och jag borde inte vara så snabb på att anta att de menar 1920x1080p bara för att de skriver "Full HD"
Men det är vad det betyder för mig. Annars är det inte äkta Highdef...

Håller med.

Eftersom progressiv lagring är effektivast så skulle jag tippa att filmen ligger lagrad som 1080p på skivan.

Vad som sen kommer ut i spelarna är väl en annan femma men det beror snarare på spelarna, inte filmen. Det pratas om endast 1080i i den första generationen spelare, vi får väl se.

Personligen hoppas jag man kan välja att outputta allt möjligt:
1080p @ 24/25
1080p @ 60/50
1080i @ 60/50
720p @ 60/50

Lär väl aldrig hända, men, men...

1080i kan föresten anses vara så "lika HighDef" som 1080p, med korrekt utförd inverse telecine uppnår man med filmbaserat materal 1080p upplösning ur 1080i. Nån som tyckte 1080i såg dåligt ut på Rubyn på mässan?

Charlie's Angels...maken till skitfilm föresten...får en ju att vilja bojkotta BD totalt.

Redigerat av pacman, 22 november 2005 - 11:33.

Eftersom progressiv lagring är effektivast så skulle jag tippa att filmen ligger lagrad som 1080p på skivan.

Vad som sen kommer ut i spelarna är väl en annan femma men det beror snarare på spelarna, inte filmen. Det pratas om endast 1080i  i den första generationen spelare, vi får väl se.

Personligen hoppas jag man kan välja att outputta allt möjligt:
1080p @ 24/25
1080p @ 60/50
1080i @ 60/50
720p @ 60/50

Lär väl aldrig hända, men, men... 

1080i kan föresten anses vara så "lika HighDef" som 1080p, med korrekt utförd inverse telecine uppnår man med filmbaserat materal 1080p upplösning ur 1080i. Nån som tyckte 1080i såg dåligt ut på Rubyn på mässan? 

Charlie's Angels...maken till skitfilm föresten...får en ju att vilja bojkotta BD totalt. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1080p @ 60/50 hade vart nåt att hänga i julgranen!

Men men, man ska ju ha en bra bildvisare att matcha signalen med oxå... Så man kanske får lugna sig lite med 1080p:andet!

Mmm, Angels är inget som ger "vill ha" begär direkt!

Tar iofs hellre 1080p/24 än 1080p/60, slipper man risken för "judder".

"judder"? Nu snackar du över huvet på mig Paccis...

Film är inspelat i 24 fps.

För att konvertera detta till 60 fps måste man visa hälften av bilderna 3 ggr och den andra hälften av bilderna 2 ggr.

Dvs:
Bild 1 från filmen visas 3 ggr
Bild 2 från filmen visas 2 ggr
Bild 3 från filmen visas 3 ggr
Bild 4 från filmen visas 2 ggr
osv till
Bild 23 från filmen visas 3 ggr
Bild 24 från filmen visas 2 ggr

Varje frame från filmen visas alltså olika länge, detta ger ryckiga rörelser vid panoreringar, dessa "ryckningar" kallas "judder".

Typ.

Äru me?

Redigerat av pacman, 22 november 2005 - 12:23.

Hehe, ja då har man lärt sig ännu en geek-term! Hur ska detta sluta...

Nej, men allvarligt. Det är alltid kul att lära sig nåt nytt.
Tack för infon P-man...

Haha! "geek-term" är rätta ordet.
Finns hur många som helst och det lär aldrig sina...

Ja man borde nästan starta en officiell "Geek-term" tråd så alla kan hänga med i tugget här på forumet...

Men nu är jag helt off topic och lägger ner den tanken innan någon moderator blir sne på mig!

Mvh
M.P.

Håller mad Pacman.
Just av den anledningen "bojkottar" jag NTSC-material så långt det går.
Endast i nödfall (de fall jag absolut inte kan få tag på filmen i PAL) kör jag med NTSC.
De borde SKROTA hela NTSC-standarden. Det FUNKAR inte ihop med film inspelad med 24 fps!
Eller ännu hellre: Spela in filmerna med betydligt högre fps redan från början!
Det lär man väl så dröma om...

Hmm förstår inte NTSC material är ju även 23.97 FPS (likväl som 29.97) så det måste väl passa väligt bra med film i 24fps.

Film NTSC är väl 23.97 och TV material 29.97 om jag inte missuppfattat helt fel. Så vanlig film i 24FPS måste ju passa NTSC perfekt.

Annars har väl PAL typ alla fördelar förutom att alla röster och ljud höjs en semiton pga att filmen speedas upp ngt.


Edit.

Hittade lite mer info och det förklarade ju en del ang 23.97/29.97 som jag inte visste.
NTSC simply adds a double frame in every 3 frames of the video to get the 29.97 fps speed, so in reality there actually 23.97 fps in NTSC when having a progessive scan DVD player and TV.

Redigerat av Unregisteredf2a7f9fd, 22 november 2005 - 13:48.

NTSC är 59.94 (60) Hz. Inget annat.

Jo när jag läste lite mer såg jag det.

Men som jag uppfattar det så är det ingen mer info i den extra framen som "tillsätts" för att nå 29.97 från 23.97 eller?

Kör man en NTSC film på xboxen så står sourcen på 29.97 men den ställer ändå om sig till 23.97 och visar filmen i 23.97 så jag brukar då inte se några ryckigheter...

Care to shed some more light to this pacman....

Personligen tycker jag det är olyckligt att prata om fps (frames per sec) när man pratar om video. Interlace-NTSC är 60 fields/sek. Eftersom dessa fields inte har någon som helst sammhörighet kan man inte bara "slå ihop dem" och rakt av säga att det motsvarar 30 frames/sek. Dvs i detta fall är 2 fields inte = 1 frame. Jajja, parantes...

Men visst, man kan vrida och vända på det och säga att det är 24 resp. 30 fps men det känns onödigt, bilduppdateringen sker i 60 Hz. Punkt.

Att du inte märker av några ryckigheter kan jag inte säga så mkt om, inte heller jag är särskillt känslig för detta. Men vetskapen att de kan hacka räcker för mig, så kan det undvikas så är det ju smutt. Med det sagt så är det inte så att jag går ut på stan och hugger ner folk med yxa så fort jag observerar judder.

Iaf, ALL 24 Hz film som överförs till 60 Hz måste genomgå 3:2 pulldown (dvs: "NTSC simply adds a double frame in every 3 frames of the video") vilket alltså leder till 3,2,3,2 sekvenser som alltså ger judder.

och nej, ingen information läggs till.

Vad det nån som sa OT?

Redigerat av pacman, 22 november 2005 - 14:29.

Film är inspelat i 24 fps.

För att konvertera detta till 60 fps måste man visa hälften av bilderna 3 ggr och den andra hälften av bilderna 2 ggr.

Dvs:
Bild 1 från filmen visas 3 ggr
Bild 2 från filmen visas 2 ggr
Bild 3 från filmen visas 3 ggr
Bild 4 från filmen visas 2 ggr
osv till
Bild 23 från filmen visas 3 ggr
Bild 24 från filmen visas 2 ggr

Varje frame från filmen visas alltså olika länge, detta ger ryckiga rörelser vid panoreringar, dessa "ryckningar" kallas "judder".

Typ.

Äru me? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Så detta e 3:2 pulldown? Då är jag med...

Redigerat av thetias, 22 november 2005 - 15:04.

OT...

Jag märker av det en hel del. Det är ju inte så att det rycker till ibland utan är ju mer ett litet men konstant "vibrerande" vid panoreringar. Inte lika jobbigt som när man ser på felaktig PAL/NTSC inställningar där det ju blir ett märkbart hack med jämna mellanrum.
Man vänjer sig efter ett tag med NTSC tycker jag, men när man tittat på en hel film i NTSC och sedan lägger på en PAL-skiva så blir det: wow! så mjukt det flyter!
Har en LCD-proj och vet inte om det märks tydligare på en LCD än vad det gör på en CRT.
You tell me...

Så detta e 3:2 pulldown?   Då är jag med...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

citerar components ordlista

Pulldown
Film spelas in med 24 helbilder/sek. Vid överföring av film till video, telecine, måste man i fallet med NTSC, 60 Hz interlace video (60 halvbilder/sek), utföra något som kallas 3-2 pulldown. Detta innebär att man delar in de ursprungliga helbilderna i halvbilder (två halvbilder utgör en helbild) och ordnar dem på så sätt att de matchar 60 Hz.

Det går till som följer: Helbild #1, som delats in i två halvbilder, utgör de 3 första halvbilderna Helbild #2 utgör de efterföljande 2 halvbilderna Helbild #3 utgör de efterföljande 3 halvbilderna Helbild #4 utgör de efterföljande 2 halvbilderna osv. Denna sekvens, eller "cadance", med 3,2,3,2 kallas alltså 3-2 pulldown och möjliggör konvertering av 24Hz material till 60 Hz.

Genom deinterlaceing kan man återskapa halvbilderna till helbilder. Här kombinerar man ihop halvbilderna till de ursprungliga helbilderna. Helbild #1 visas 3ggr, helbild #2 visas 2ggr, helbild #3 visas 3 ggr osv. Ut fås 60 helbilder/sek. Detta kallas (inverse telecine with) 3-2 pulldown detection.

För PAL (50 Hz interlace) gäller lite andra regler. Här speedas filmen upp till 25 bilder/sek innan överföring till video. Dessa 25 bilder omvandlas enkelt till 50 halvbilder, sk 2-2 pulldown. Vid deinterlaceing av PAL, 2-2 pulldown detection, slås 2 halvbilder ihop till en helbild. Varje helbild vissas 2 ggr och ut fås 50 helbilder/sek.

Många geek-words blir det...

Japp, 3-2 pulldown leder alltså till judder.

Så detta e 3:2 pulldown?   Då är jag med...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

citerar components ordlista

Pulldown
Film spelas in med 24 helbilder/sek. Vid överföring av film till video, telecine, måste man i fallet med NTSC, 60 Hz interlace video (60 halvbilder/sek), utföra något som kallas 3-2 pulldown. Detta innebär att man delar in de ursprungliga helbilderna i halvbilder (två halvbilder utgör en helbild) och ordnar dem på så sätt att de matchar 60 Hz.

Det går till som följer: Helbild #1, som delats in i två halvbilder, utgör de 3 första halvbilderna Helbild #2 utgör de efterföljande 2 halvbilderna Helbild #3 utgör de efterföljande 3 halvbilderna Helbild #4 utgör de efterföljande 2 halvbilderna osv. Denna sekvens, eller "cadance", med 3,2,3,2 kallas alltså 3-2 pulldown och möjliggör konvertering av 24Hz material till 60 Hz.

Genom deinterlaceing kan man återskapa halvbilderna till helbilder. Här kombinerar man ihop halvbilderna till de ursprungliga helbilderna. Helbild #1 visas 3ggr, helbild #2 visas 2ggr, helbild #3 visas 3 ggr osv. Ut fås 60 helbilder/sek. Detta kallas (inverse telecine with) 3-2 pulldown detection.

För PAL (50 Hz interlace) gäller lite andra regler. Här speedas filmen upp till 25 bilder/sek innan överföring till video. Dessa 25 bilder omvandlas enkelt till 50 halvbilder, sk 2-2 pulldown. Vid deinterlaceing av PAL, 2-2 pulldown detection, slås 2 halvbilder ihop till en helbild. Varje helbild vissas 2 ggr och ut fås 50 helbilder/sek.

Många geek-words blir det...

Japp, 3-2 pulldown leder alltså till judder.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hahaha! Jag gillar ordet "cadance" .....

Nu börjar kostnadena smyga sig ikapp Blu-ray lägret, dock för tidigt att säga vad detta skulle innebära eller motsvara i pris skillnader mellan HD DVD / Blu-ray.

Cost questions dog Blu-ray DVD's lead

Because Sony's Blu-ray disc technology appears to be the front-runner in the nasty fight to determine how the DVDs of the future are produced, movie studios and disc manufacturers are beginning to come to terms with the financial realities of the new format--as well as some troubling uncertainties.
For more than a year now, a bitter public relations war has been waged between supporters of Blu-ray and a rival Toshiba-backed technology known as HD DVD. Both are high-capacity discs that will support the distribution of high-definition versions of movies, with much better picture quality than what's possible with today's technology.
Blu-ray appears to have the lead, with most major movie studios saying they'll release films in the format next year. That's led to new concerns about mass production of DVDs in the new format. Since it represents a major break with past DVD and CD techniques, some worry Blu-ray will be expensive to support--at least in the short term--and could jack up prices for consumers.
How much? No one can say for certain. But in at least one early test, according to a top manufacturing executive who asked to remain anonymous, a manufacturing line for HD DVD discs produced nearly twice as many usable discs as a similar line pumping out the Blu-ray format, over the same period of time. That translates into higher costs for Blu-ray producers. Moreover, component costs for Blu-ray can be nearly double HD DVD costs, because elements are still hard to find, the executive said.
That Blue-ray discs may start out pricey shouldn't be a shock. They face a classic curve for new technologies, which are initially expensive as manufacturers work with small numbers of orders and learn how to streamline the process. Sony also disputes those high-priced estimates.
"If there is a (cost) difference, that has yet to be determined," said Sony Pictures' Adrian Alperovich, the studio's executive vice president in charge of new business development. "There are (manufacturers) on both sides of the equation. If there is a difference in price either way, we think it will be minimal."
Alperovich argues that if there is a short-term price gap, the advantages of Blu-ray--mainly more capacity and flexibility for things like gaming--should outweigh that concern. But traditional engineering questions about Blu-ray have taken on a testier tone in this scrap.
Blu-ray's rival, the HD DVD format, relies on a reasonably well understood process. HD DVDs are constructed very similarly to existing DVDs, and the basic discs can be made with relatively minor modifications to existing DVD manufacturing lines.
Blu-ray discs, on the other hand, require completely different equipment. Most of the major disc replicators--the companies that make DVDs and CDs--now have a test line or two up and running, but hard data on production costs remains scant.
The format's backers at the Blu-ray Disc Association have repeatedly predicted that costs would come down quickly and be almost immediately competitive with those of HD DVD.
Yet one senior executive at a major disc replication facility said he has long been worried about Blu-ray costs.
"We feel that some of the (Blu-ray backers') statements are setting unrealistic cost and price expectations for the content owners they are courting," said the executive, who asked to remain anonymous owing to a close working relationship with Blu-ray companies. "They're right at the zero point in terms of operational knowledge."
Spin, or real concerns?
For the most part, things like the technical details of the manufacturing process, of video compression and of disc formats are irrelevant to consumers. But the prospect of a next-generation DVD format war, similar to the battle between VHS and Sony's Betamax in the mid-1970s, has chilled the industry. Analysts at Sanford Bernstein estimated that media companies could collectively lose as much as $16 billion over seven years if HD DVD and Blu-ray were launched without a clear favorite, because without a clear-cut winner, consumers would be leery of buying one or the other.
Blu-ray has more clout right now thanks to backing from studios such as Warner Bros. and Paramount, which have said they would release films in both formats. No Blu-ray backer has made the same gesture toward HD DVD.
Manufacturers have been testing both technologies in their labs for months and are now gearing up for actual production. Sony Pictures announced earlier this month that it had made the first "reference" disc of a Blu-ray movie, using a copy of "Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle." It's now being shipped to player companies for testing.
"The Blu-ray technology and process is new," said Lyne Beauregard, director of communications at Cinram International, a large disc manufacturer in Toronto. "If the format is launched and grows, there will be multiple generations of equipment. As we refine it and find efficiencies--that will lower the cost."
Cinram's Beauregard said her company had a single Blu-ray production line up and running, compared with 12 new DVD lines that could also do HD DVD discs. She wouldn't provide cost comparisons.
The disc manufacturing executive critical of Blu-ray said his company's production test lines showed that Blu-ray production was far less efficient than HD DVD. Component costs, for example, are higher because they use different materials than DVDs, including a high-tech film layer currently produced only by Sony.
"The difference is significant," the executive said. "Those are real costs. I don't think the price will ever equalize."
He also said that both sides' promises to make "hybrid" discs, with high-definition content on one side, and an ordinary DVD on the other, should be viewed with deep suspicion. Though it's feasible to combine the lowest-capacity HD DVD with DVD, Blu-ray and higher capacity HD DVD discs will be very expensive to meld with the standard format.
For now, since hard production data on the new technology remains scant, many of these comparisons rely on educated guesswork.
A recent white paper published online by Richard Marquardt, an engineer who served in top executive roles at disc replicators for years, predicted that retooling manufacturing plants for Blu-ray could cost up to $1 billion worldwide, while existing DVD manufacturing capacity could be refitted for HD DVD for less than a tenth of that.
"Already-beleaguered CFOs will be challenged to raise--and risk--this significant amount of capital," Marquardt wrote.
His predictions were immediately challenged by Blu-ray supporters, who noted he is a close associate of Warren Lieberfarb, a Hollywood consultant who works closely with the HD DVD camp. In an interview with CNET News.com, Marquardt said Lieberfarb had asked him to provide his thoughts on the manufacturing issues, but that he had no personal or financial stake in either side.
The real cost and quality issues will be apparent only when both formats hit the market next year.
"If we had made the determination solely based on cost, we would never have launched DVD," Sony's Alperovich said. "And that's absurd."

http://news.com.com/...l?tag=nefd.lede

Tidsplanen för Blu-ray tycks hålla än så länge...


LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - The Blu-ray DVD group said on Tuesday it still planned to roll out a high-definition disc format in spring 2006, though members of the consortium led by Sony Corp. (6758.T: Quote, Profile, Research) said they would unveil specific launch plans at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in January.

"We're sticking with the spring time frame," said Andy Parsons, a spokesman for Blu-ray, at a demonstration of the new high-capacity DVD format.

Blu-Ray is vying with a competing format known as HD DVD, championed by a group led by Toshiba Corp. (6502.T: Quote, Profile, Research).

"At CES, you're likely to hear some announcements from a number of companies as to when you'll see our products on the market," Parsons told a group of analysts, industry members and reporters gathered at the product demonstration at News Corp.'s (NWS.N: Quote, Profile, Research) 20th Century Fox lot. The show is in Las Vegas.

Sony's Blu-ray disc technology appears to be the front-runner in the multibillion dollar race to develop the next-generation DVDs, which movie studios and consumer electronics manufacturers hope will ignite sales for the home video sector, which has shown signs of a slowdown recently.

Both formats provide high-definition versions of movies as well as interactive features.

Members of the Blu-ray camp, including executives from Disney Corp. (DIS.N: Quote, Profile, Research), Fox, Sony, Pioneer and Panasonic, attended the press briefing on Tuesday to show off Blu-ray's interactive features, which enable consumers to play games, connect to the Internet and select from various functions, such as subtitles and text, while still watching a movie.

Blu-ray has more major movie studios on its side, although some industry watchers have said the format will be more expensive to make. While HD DVD discs can be made with only minor tweaks to the standard DVD manufacturing process, Blu-ray discs require completely different equipment.

Members of the Blu-ray Disc Association consortium have said in the past that costs will come down quickly and be almost immediately competitive with those of HD DVD.

The consortium consists of various Hollywood studios, computer makers and consumer electronics manufacturers in the United States and abroad.

Executives said on Tuesday the format's flexibility gave them added revenue potential by eventually enabling consumers to order films or merchandise using the discs.

"We do intend to be able to have that as an element in the next Blu-ray specification in terms of its being able to be used as a portal to make transactions," said Bob Chapek, president of Disney's Buena Vista Entertainment.

Richard Doherty, analyst with Envisioneering, cited a potential scenario in which a studio may one day pre-package a feature film disc with an additional movie or trailer that has not yet been released to the home viewing market and could be restricted or "locked" until the studio enables consumers to see it.

"There are lots of opportunities to merchandise between TV shows and movies. They could release movies on command ascribing to pay-per-view limits. The same disc enables many consumer experiences and profit possibilities," he said.

Members from HD DVD and Blu-ray tried earlier this year to find a unified front but failed, paving the way for a protracted format war and reminding many industry members of the battle between VHS and Sony's Betamax in the mid-1970s, which led to confusion among consumers and losses for the studios.

© Reuters 2005. All Rights Reserved.

Är det någon som vet vad en Playstation 3 kommer att kosta?

Funderar på denna som en instegsspelare för Blu-Ray filmer.

Det är ingen som vet vad PS3 kommer kosta.

Personligen tror jag inte på en cent över $399, vad det blir här i Sverige får vi väl se.

Är det någon som vet vad en Playstation 3 kommer att kosta?

Funderar på denna som en instegsspelare för Blu-Ray filmer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Är inne på samma spår som du.
Jag följer PS3-tråden flitigt...

Hahaha! Jag gillar ordet "cadance" .....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jo, men det är felstavat också.
Cadence heter det väl ändå...

Sony gives hints on pricing of Playstation 3

Sony has for the first time given some genuine hints on possible pricing strategy of their upcoming gaming console Playstation 3. With Microsoft launching their Xbox 360 today, it became important for the entertainment giant to give some hints to the consumers on what they would have to pay for Sony Playstation 3 gaming console due to be launched sometime next year.

Sony CEO Howard Stringer stated in a comment that the Playstation 3 would enter the market at between $300 and $400 when it arrives in mid-2006. He was talking to the FORTUNE magazine when he confirmed that Sony would indeed be shipping the initial deliveries of their Playstation 3 console at massive subsidized rates to get the consumers to their gaming console.

They also want to get their self-developed next generation DVD format, the Blu-Ray disc popular in to the market and are including the drives with their Sony Playstation 3 console. This quashes any rumors in the market which claimed that the Sony Playstation 3 would be significantly expensive than Xbox 360 because of the additional costs of the included Blu-Ray drive.

Stinger however did not reveal any specific launch period for the PS3 though he mentioned that the console would ship with a bundle of games, movies and TV shows. This move is to showcase the capabilities of their new generation console. Microsoft on their part has shown interests in supporting the Blu-Ray competing standard HD DVD being developed by Toshiba. The Xbox 360 units being shipped right now however comes installed with a standard DVD drive.[B][B]

Jo, men det är felstavat också.
Cadence heter det väl ändå...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hehe, ingen som orkat göra en spell-check på ordlistan...

ElvisAhlgren>> Det där stämmer inte. Sony har inte hintat ett jota. länk

Med det finns det ju redan en PS3-tråd...

Med det finns det ju redan en PS3-tråd...

Jo, men skulle man inte kunna starta en separat tråd om PS3 på DVD-spelare subforum som fokuserar sig på dess funktion i en hemmabio? Den kommer troligtvis att vara bland de första och högst sannolikt den mest spridda Blu-Ray DVD-spelaren under det kommande året. På PS3-tråden under Spelkonsoller subforumet finns det inte så mycket information om dess hemmabiofunktioner.

Vad säger moderatorerna? Går det att göra ett undantag?

Good point, Videofilur.

Inte för att jag ska säga nått, jag är den som varit värst OT av alla här. *nitar mig själv*

Inte vet jag om Sony sagt något men det påstås så på bl.a. http://www.ps3inside...s/134704394.php

PS3 är ett tungt vägande skäl för många att indirekt stöda Blu-ray så nog tycker jag att mindre mängder PS info kan vara berättigad även i denna tråd.

Jo, men det är felstavat också.
Cadence heter det väl ändå...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hehe, ingen som orkat göra en spell-check på ordlistan...

ElvisAhlgren>> Det där stämmer inte. Sony har inte hintat ett jota. länk

Med det finns det ju redan en PS3-tråd...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Det finns även signaler om att Xbox 360 i senare versioner kommer att få HD DVD. Att det sedan finns prototyper av spelare från båda lägren är sant, men HD DVD hävdade under oktober månad att endast de hade en fungerande spelare. Båda lägren kommer endast att börja sälja uppspelnings bara spelare och inte sådana med inspelning funktion. Mer detaljer om Blu-ray kommer under januari.

The Blu-ray DVD group says that it still plans to launch the high-definition format in the spring and that specific plans will be unveiled at the Consumer Electronics Show in January.

"We're sticking with the spring timeframe," Andy Parsons, a spokesman for the Sony-led consortium, said at a demonstration Tuesday of the new high-capacity DVD format.

Blu-Ray is vying with a competing format known as HD DVD, championed by a group led by Toshiba.

"At CES, you're likely to hear some announcements from a number of companies as to when you'll see our products on the market," Parsons told a group of analysts, industry members and reporters gathered at the product demonstration at News Corp.'s 20th Century Fox lot. CES takes place in Las Vegas.

Sony's Blu-ray disc technology appears to be the front-runner in the multibillion-dollar race to develop next-generation DVDs, which movie studios and consumer electronics manufacturers hope will ignite sales for the home video sector, which has shown signs of a slowdown recently.
Members of the Blu-ray camp, including executives from Disney, Fox, Sony, Pioneer and Panasonic, attended the press briefing on Tuesday to show off Blu-ray's interactive features, which enable consumers to play games, connect to the Internet and select from various functions, such as subtitles and text, while still watching a movie.

Blu-ray has more major movie studios on its side, although some industry watchers have said the format will be more expensive to make. While HD DVD discs can be made with only minor tweaks to the standard DVD manufacturing process, Blu-ray discs require completely different equipment.
Members of the Blu-ray Disc Association consortium have said in the past that costs will come down quickly and be almost immediately competitive with those of HD DVD.

The consortium consists of various Hollywood studios, computer makers and consumer electronics manufacturers in the United States and abroad.
Executives said on Tuesday the format's flexibility gives them added revenue potential by eventually enabling consumers to order films or merchandise using the discs.

"We do intend to be able to have that as an element in the next Blu-ray specification in terms of its being able to be used as a portal to make transactions," said Bob Chapek, president of Disney's Buena Vista Entertainment.

Richard Doherty, analyst with Envisioneering, cited a potential scenario in which a studio may one day pre-package a feature film disc with an additional movie or trailer that has not yet been released to the home viewing market and could be restricted or "locked" until the studio enables consumers to see it.

"There are lots of opportunities to merchandise between TV shows and movies. They could release movies on command ascribing to pay-per-view limits. The same disc enables many consumer experiences and profit possibilities," he said.

Members from HD DVD and Blu-ray tried earlier this year to find a unified front but failed, paving the way for a protracted format war and reminding many industry members of the battle between VHS and Sony's Betamax in the mid-1970s, which led to confusion among consumers and losses for the studios.

http://news.com.com/..._3-5976517.html

Hahaha! Jag gillar ordet "cadance" .....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jo, men det är felstavat också.
Cadence heter det väl ändå...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Det är minst lika illa! Låter som nåt från en Barbra Streisand musikal...