Blu-ray eller HD DVD?

Så BDn släppte en spelare som kostar 1500$ som inte är Top Of The Line direkt om jag förstår rätt 

Hämta hur många citat o artiklar du vill...det ändrar inte saken att BDP-HD1 "It has the ability to output Blu-ray at 24 frames per second" inte levererar.

Redigerat av Unregistered992, 31 March 2007 - 03:47.

Så BDn släppte en spelare som kostar 1500$ som inte är Top Of The Line direkt om jag förstår rätt 

Som jag fattat det så ja, det ser ut som du har fattat rätt.

Hämta hur många citat o artiklar du vill...det ändrar inte saken att BDP-HD1 "It has the ability to output Blu-ray at 24 frames per second" inte levererar.

Vad spelar det för roll om Pioneer fuckar upp det på sin spelare? "3-2 pulldown judder" existerar och folk stör sig på det, punkt.

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Så BDn släppte en spelare som kostar 1500$ som inte är Top Of The Line direkt om jag förstår rätt 

Som jag fattat det så ja, det ser ut som du har fattat rätt.

Hämta hur många citat o artiklar du vill...det ändrar inte saken att BDP-HD1 "It has the ability to output Blu-ray at 24 frames per second" inte levererar.

Vad spelar det för roll om Pioneer fuckar upp det på sin spelare? "3-2 pulldown judder" existerar och folk stör sig på det, punkt.

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Lugnt o fint nu
Toshiba HD-XA2 REVIEW

"The HD-XA2 produced superior visual images in 1080p. Will the 1080p images from a Blu-ray Disc player look much better? It's hard to say. Personally, I believe that HD DVD looks better than Blu-ray, as the images have a lot of punch. The colors are more vibrant overall with more crisp detail. With Blu-ray, the colors and images seem slightly muted. All of the images displayed on the Mitsubishi WD-57831 1080p HDTV had clarity and depth of field, giving the illusion of clear HD-quality from a next-generation optical disc player"

"While HD DVD images looked absolutely spectacular (and better than Blu-ray for my money!), it was standard-definition images from any DVD, which were upconverted to 1080p, that separates this player from other 1080p players. Standard-definition DVDs were crisp, clear, and free from any noticeable artifacts. They were truly near-HD in quality. Standard definition titles ranging from Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest and The DaVinci Code to The Eagles: First Farewell Tour and Celtic Woman looked simply stunning! It all comes back to video processing and Toshiba's wise use of the Reon HQV chipset."

"And, in terms of image quality, HD DVD can't be beat. HD DVD is also more affordable than Blu-ray; a $600 1080p with HDMI 1.3 will be available later this spring, but it won't include the Reon HQV chipset, which is worth the price of admission for the XA2. Toshiba's HD-XA2 is truly a player for all seasons and all formats, from SD to HD DVD."

Teori VS Praktik

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Redigerat av Unregistered992, 31 March 2007 - 04:00.

*suck* jag orkar snart inte mer, jag orkar inte kommentera artikeln med annat än, vad har bildkvalitet att göra med 3-2 pulldown judder? Snälla kan vi försöka få slut på den diskusionen innan vi blandar in en massa annat?
Jag tvivlar på att det är skillnad i judder mellan den gamla TFE och den nya som kommer senare i år

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Redigerat av diabolo, 31 March 2007 - 04:22.

*suck* jag orkar snart inte mer, jag orkar inte kommentera artikeln med annat än, vad har bildkvalitet att göra med 3-2 pulldown judder? Snälla kan vi försöka få slut på den diskusionen innan vi blandar in en massa annat?
Jag tvivlar på att det är skillnad i judder mellan den gamla TFE och den nya som kommer senare i år

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Jag gör som du vill Razter ...i proved my point

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Jag googlade runt lite på den amerikanska modellen av din TV och hittade detta:
"CineMotion 3:2 Pulldown technology"

Jag har ingen aning om vad det är och orkar inte leta vidare, men detta kanske gör "judder" mindre synligt?

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Jag googlade runt lite på den amerikanska modellen av din TV och hittade detta:
"CineMotion 3:2 Pulldown technology"

Jag har ingen aning om vad det är och orkar inte leta vidare, men detta kanske gör "judder" mindre synligt?

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Jag erkänner att Sony kan sina grejer inom TV...har haft 3st o alltid varit nöjd.

"Additional features include CineMotion® reverse 3:2 pulldown circuitry to provide a consistently smooth image and a Dynamic Picture Processor to deliver a crisp, realistic image."

Tyvärr kan jag inte säga samma sak om BD teknologin, sorry.

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Jag antar att vi har hittat anledningen till att du inte ser judder... Sony kan sina prylar
Skulle va kul och se skillnaden mellan den funktionen och 24p. Antar att Sony släpper nya modeller senare, då får du inspektera dom
BD teknologin? Den är mer avancerad än HD DVD så vad är problemet? Eller syftar du på Pioneer spelaren?

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Jag antar att vi har hittat anledningen till att du inte ser judder... Sony kan sina prylar
Skulle va kul och se skillnaden mellan den funktionen och 24p. Antar att Sony släpper nya modeller senare, då får du inspektera dom
BD teknologin? Den är mer avancerad än HD DVD så vad är problemet? Eller syftar du på Pioneer spelaren?

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Du o din kompis Addex skrattade när jag sa att jag inte ser några judder

Sony allt the way när det gäller TV apparater och HD-DVD teknologi när det gäller uppspelning av HD material.

*PS3an finns för vissa exklusiva titlar

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Redigerat av Unregistered992, 31 March 2007 - 04:41.

Jag kommer inte ihåg allt jag skrev i tråden, men detta är från ett av mina PM till dig.
"Antingen är din TV grymt bra, du är okänslig mot fenomenet, eller så är det lättare att se det på projjar."

Din TV är tydligen bra, om funktionen lägger till artifekter vore dock intressant att veta.

EDIT: Att funktionen öht finns i TV:n bevisar ju att det är ett problem, eller hur?

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"En bra Full HD TV ska kunna vissa 1080p bild(Observera ordet bra)" dvs spelar ej någon roll om spelaren skickar i eller p.(Hoppas att du håller med nu annars får du midnight besök utav mig    )

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"En bra Full HD TV ska kunna vissa 1080p bild(Observera ordet bra)" dvs spelar ej någon roll om spelaren skickar i eller p.(Hoppas att du håller med nu annars får du midnight besök utav mig     )

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Mja absolut, men fortfarande intresserad av vad den exakt gör med signalen, och om det blir några artifekter. Snacka om OT vi är nu
DI's ger ju BC som en form av artifekt, undra om den där funktionen har något eget fuffens för sig

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First off, I can understand why some people dislike the idea of TotalHD; nobody wants to be forced to pay more money for a disc with a feature that's useless to them. This argument especially makes sense for Blu-ray owners who really have no use whatsoever for an HD-DVD side, and is reminiscent of HD-DVD's combo discs.

However, here's where I think the problem lies. People think that TotalHD discs and HD-DVD combo discs have the same underlying reasoning behind them, and that's why they're both a bad idea. They do indeed operate under the same hypothesis, but let me explain why combo discs are bad whereas TotalHD discs are good.
With the combo discs, the rationale was never about benefiting HD-DVD owners, it was about getting SD owners to 'future-proof' their purchases by buying an SD disc that also had an HD side for when SD eventually started being phased out. The problem with this reasoning is that everybody knows HD-DVD isn't going to become the dominant format and therefore this isn't future-proofing at all; by the time those SD owners get around to upgrading to an HD medium, years from now, it certainly won't be HD-DVD that they're going to upgrade to, making their combo discs a useless, expensive purchase.

HOWEVER...
...Blu-ray does have a strong likelihood of becoming the dominant format (at this point, HD-DVD only has a chance at holding the position they've got, not at achieving any sort of meaningful lead). The rationale behind TotalHD discs is that people (like myself) who decided to buy into HD-DVD now because we wanted to watch HD movies now at an affordable price, will be able to 'future-proof' our purchases, so that when Blu-ray becomes more affordable and becomes the dominant format, we won't have to re-buy our HD-DVD movies all over again on Blu-ray.

Obviously, this means that for Blu-ray owners, TotalHD is as useless as combo discs are to HD-DVD owners, and you early Blu-ray adopters will be paying a few bucks more for something you don't need at all. But for HD-DVD owners, the TotalHD plan is a total blessing! Personally, I'm looking forward to them, and I think the format will really take off.

Even if you don't agree, do you at least see where I'm coming from here?

Redigerat av Unregistered992, 31 March 2007 - 08:03.

Hitta ett intressant inlägg på HDD om THD, precis så känner jag också, THD är till för HD DVD köpare.

Sen är HDDVD bättre rent tekniskt, BD är ju inte ens färdigutvecklat dem har bra ljud på fler skivor kanske men inte nämnvärt rent betygsmässigt nej dem har en del kvar att utveckla, lustigt att folk stödjer ett på papperet sämre format ta te x Superman returns som är betydligt bättre på HDDVD.

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Redigerat av henke007, 31 March 2007 - 09:57.

*Intressant att du ändrar dina inlägg efter att jag har svarat 

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pappret kanske va fel Praktiken ska det vara givetvis, Segt för de som köpt Superman Returns bara redan nya updates och utgåvor att ödsla cash på ... UK versionernaär ju ej billiga direkt. 

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Redigerat av henke007, 31 March 2007 - 10:11.

Ja jämförde egentligen bara Superman Returns nu BD har klart fina ljudutgåvor , men du får iaf hålla med om att HDDVD har ett försprång i det tekniska och interaktiva på sitt format det som BD fortfarande utvecklar i skrivande stund..?!

Sen en intressant iaktagelse från Axelmusic

4 av top 20 hi def titles är BD endast..


              BLU-RAY       HD-DVD
Weekly                        49.1%                                    50.9%
Monthly                        40.4%                                    59.6%
Yearly                          29.5%                                    70.5%
 
Releases                        284                                        245

Lugnt o fint nu 
Toshiba HD-XA2 REVIEW

HD DVD titles watched included: Peter Jackson's King Kong, Superman Returns, Serenity, Unforgiven, The Searchers, Goodfellas, Training Day, Full Metal Jacket, Swordfish, Mission Impossible III, The Phantom of the Opera, and Miami Vice: Unrated Director's Cut (HD DVD and DVD Combo disc). Image quality was exceptional on all titles, especially Serenity, Miami Vice, and The Searchers, which bordered on phenomenal!

On the other hand, in my signal chain choosing 1080p from the XA2 caused a host of HDMI handshaking problems that don't affect 1080i output. I found it usually takes several attempts to get the HDMI handshake to lock on when using 1080p. The player also loses its place if you switch over to another video source and then back while the 1080p setting is active, starting the disc over from the beginning. This doesn't happen at any other resolution

Toshiba, We Have a Problem

All of this sounds pretty good so far: terrific picture quality, less glitchy than previous models, 1080p output. So where's the catch, you ask? Sadly, I did find one.

On certain discs, both HD DVD and standard DVD, I found the HD-XA2 to have a video stutter issue. To the eye it looks as if the player is dropping a frame here and there. It doesn't affect every disc, but on those it does, the problem is reproducible in the same location with repeated playback. The effect is subtle, but it's definitely there if you look for it, and it's not present on the HD-A1. I first noticed this in several spots early in 'Serenity,' during the scene where Simon is talking to the scientist and then later after the camera tilts up to reveal River hiding on the ceiling, but that movie has some jerky handheld camerawork that may mask the issue for some viewers.

The most blatant example I found is in 'World Trade Center.' At the 3:50 time code there's a static shot of a pedestrian walking from left to right across the frame. His movement clearly jerks forward unnaturally in two spots. This happens every time the scene is replayed. The same disc played in the HD-A1 shows perfectly smooth movement during that scene. I'll note that these are just some easily referenced examples. On affected discs the problem is persistent throughout the movie, not just in isolated spots. I've also found this on selected Standard-Def DVDs, including the "Mixed 3:2 with Titles" test pattern on the HQV Benchmark disc. Watch the words "typical" and "crawl" in the horizontal scrolling text.

Fearing that I might just have one bad unit, I was fortunately able to test two separate HD-XA2s (thank you again to Value Electronics) but found the same artifact on both.

Again, this problem is not present on every disc played. The majority of titles I've tested played smoothly. I can't seem to determine any common factors linking those that are affected. I tested the player at 480p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p resolution settings, none of which made any difference, so the player's deinterlacing and scaling can probably be ruled out as the source of the problem. I've spoken directly to Toshiba management to make them aware of the issue, and they say they are confident that they can replicate this and resolve it in a future firmware update. I'm eager to test that as soon as it's ready (note that the most recent 1.3 firmware upgrade does not solve the problem).

At least that's the theory. In practice, I ran into some trouble. My audio receiver doesn't have HDMI, so I opted to use the 5.1 analog connections. I adjusted the player's speaker levels and distances to the same settings that worked quite well for me on the HD-A1. Things sounded pretty good until I hit any movie scene requiring bass. Essentially, there was hardly any LFE activity at all. When the building collapsed in 'World Trade Center,' it did so with barely a rattle. That didn't seem right. I switched over to the DD 5.1 downconversion over the player's S/PDIF output and replayed the scene. The bass slammed me in the chest as I'd expected it should. Clearly something was wrong. Next I went back to the HD-A1, using its analog outputs, and again I got that deep bass rumble.

At that point I broke out my sound level meter and began taking some measurements. Test tones measured normally on the 'Avia' calibration DVD over both analog and S/PDIF. I also put in some known bassy movies on Standard-Def DVD and had no shortage of expected gut-thumping rumble. Regular Dolby Digital and DTS on DVD don't seem to be affected, but LFE output from the HD-XA2's analog connection is clearly too low on both DD+ and Dolby TrueHD from HD DVD discs.

The HD-A1 had required a 10 dB bass boost at my receiver, as do most multi-channel analog sources. I expected that, but the HD-XA2's LFE is much lower still, to the point of being practically nonexistent. I found a particularly good example to test this at Chapter 2 on the HD DVD edition of 'The Wicker Man' (lousy movie, unfortunately). Nicolas Cage has some dialogue that makes a good reference point to take a non-bassy sound level measurement for volume matching purposes (the clearest line is "I've got it, honey"). Following this line, a truck passes by on the road that should have a good rumble of bass. Then shortly afterwards there's a huge crash that should again obviously provide a clean LFE hit, followed by some fire effects with more rumble.

Using S/PDIF, I set my volume so that Cage's line of dialogue hits exactly 70 dB. Then when I switched to analog, I adjusted the volume to make sure the same line hit that precise point (which required me to turn the volume up). Doing so, I found that the three events (truck passing, truck crash, and fire) had significantly more bass over S/PDIF and almost none at all over analog, even with the 10 dB bass boost at the receiver. Not only was this measurable on the sound level meter, but I have a tactile transducer (bass shaker) attached to my chair that's connected to my receiver's subwoofer output. So I can literally feel any difference in bass (and only bass - the shaker is connected only to the subwoofer output). The transducer gave my chair a good jostle with S/PDIF, but hardly moved with analog.

I tested the HD-A1 using the same methodology, and found both its S/PDIF and analog results were comparable to the HD-XA2's S/PDIF (again, with the disclaimer that my receiver requires a 10 dB bass boost on analog). The only odd man out is the XA2's analog, which has basically no bass at all.

I tried every conceivable option in the XA2's setup menu that might possibly have some impact on this: large speakers, small speakers, different crossover frequencies, subwoofer Use or Don't Use, Dynamic Range Control on or off or auto. In the channel volumes menu, I set the subwoofer for the 0 dB max and pulled every other channel down to the -12 dB minimum. I tested and measured and retested and remeasured that scene a few dozen times. I found small variances with different settings, but nothing really fixed the lack of bass, which is problematic using either the DD+ or TrueHD track on the 'Wicker Man' disc. Yet on the HD-A1 there's plenty of bass using the analog outputs (subwoofer 0 dB, front channels -1 dB are my calibrated settings for that player).

Bass levels on the player-generated test tones and on standard DVD playback are perfectly normal. It is only on HD DVD movies where this happens. I tried to be as thorough as possible in my evaluation, to the point of doing all of my tests on both available HD-XA2s, and found each identical. I've heard reports that the same problem is present when using HDMI to transmit the audio, but unfortunately I wasn't able to check that myself.

As if that weren't enough, I found that audio lip sync is off over the analog connection on many HD DVDs as well. It appears that not enough of an audio delay is present to match up with the player's video processing. It's not terrible but it can be distracting. As with the video stutter issue, feedback on both of these audio problems was provided directly to Toshiba. Hopefully they can get to the bottom of it and fix the problems with future firmware upgrades.

As for the lossless DTS-HD Master Audio codec that's starting to be used on some European HD DVD releases, the HD-XA2 handles this exactly the same as the HD-A1 and HD-XA1 did. The player does not fully support Master Audio decoding. Instead it extracts the standard DTS core, which is equivalent to DTS sound quality on DVD. Master Audio decoding is a feature that Toshiba says it hopes to implement in the future. At this time, all of the American HD DVD studios have been favoring the competing Dolby TrueHD codec, which is fully decoded by this player.

Redigerat av Unregistered992, 31 March 2007 - 10:44.

Försprång på interaktiviteten? Självklart, det snacka vi ju om tidigare, PiP i BD har inga begränsningar, den har samma möjligthet som vanligt videoströmmen och just därför är den försenad, hårdvaran var inte redo för standalones.
HD DVD begränsade dock sin PiP och fick därmed ut den på marknaden tidigare.

HD DVD begränsade dock sin PiP och fick därmed ut den på marknaden tidigare.

HD DVD begränsade dock sin PiP och fick därmed ut den på marknaden tidigare.

.... ....

Därför BD kommer med PiP update men ingen syns än för HD DVD's iHD.. som fortfarande har features PiP ej har...

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effekten av :
It’s Official: Toshiba Cuts HD DVD Pricing + 70 HD DVD Titles Announced Through July

Redigerat av Unregistered1103, 01 April 2007 - 00:31.

Recension: Sagan om konungens återkomst (Blu-Ray)

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Redigerat av Martin, 01 April 2007 - 02:08.

SAN JOSE, Calif. — A surprise ruling in the civil suit over the technology used to secure DVDs could have a chilling effect on already overdue moves to update current and next-generation DVDs with new managed copy features.

A judge ruled Thursday (March 29) that startup Kaleidescape Inc. did not breech its contract with the DVD Copy Control Association (DVD CCA) over its use of the consortium's Content Scramble System (CSS). The judge said due to poor wording in the documents a key portion of the CSS spec was not part of the license.

In the wake of the ruling, skittish studio execs could delay the rollout of final security specs for high definition DVDs, already a year overdue. Those specs include a new capability for letting consumers make copies of movies on a controlled basis. Discussions for adding similar features to existing DVDs may also get shoved to the back burner.

The final spec for the Advanced Access Content System (AACS) is due out for final member review in 60 days and expected to appear in products before the end of the year, a schedule that could slip with the Kaleidescape ruling.

"There will absolutely be increased scrutiny of the AACS documents after this court decision, but I really hope and trust that doesn't delay our release," said Michael Ayers, a senior attorney with Toshiba America Information Systems who also manages the group that licenses AACS.

"The AACS group will have to take at what we are doing and make sure we don't set ourselves up for a similar problem" as the DVD CCA faces, Ayers said.

Unlike the DVD CCA, the AACS group will provide tests and tests centers for licensees to test their high def DVD systems. However, they will be limited in scope and will not be available until sometime after the final AACS spec is released.

"There are several elements of compliance. The tests look at a basic part of compliance, but they are not a guarantee of compliance," said Ayers.

In testimony at the non-jury trial, DVD CCA members revealed that since 2005 they have held two votes on a comprehensive amendment to their spec which would have added managed copy features. Both times the vote failed.

"The economics of the managed copy model are still being greatly debated," said Alfred Perry, a vice president of business and legal affairs for Paramount Pictures and a board member of the DVD CCA since July 2004.

Ni som diskuterat detta ämne i 5485 inlägg, får ursäkta att jag tränger mig på så här.

Men jag kan inte förstå hur man kan tro att Toshiba mot resten av världen ens skall
ha en minimal chans. Det är samma sannolikhet som att GIF Sundsvall (för att ta
ett exempel) skulle vinna över Världslaget i fotboll. Eller Spanien över Canada
i ishockey.

Man må tycka vad man vill, vad gäller kvalite, bild, ljud eller spelare.

Blu Ray vinner racet så att det tjongar om det, vad gäller stationära
spelare för Film. Om Ps3 inte vinner över Xbox 360 har ingen som helst
betydelse, för nästan alla som har en dvd idag, kommer att ha en Blu Ray spelare
inom 5 år. Inte HD DVD ( pris om 3 år ca 1500 - 2000 kr ) *

Säkert någon som sagt samma sak redan, men orka läsa 5000 inlägg 

RB

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